Washington’s move to distance itself from the NATO military alliance and its withdrawal from international agreements has thrown light on the urgent need for Europe to take its defense and security into its own hands.

Couple of days ago, the French president, Emmanuel Macron, has warned that Europe can no longer depend on the US for its military defense and called for an urgent new European security policy.

“Europe can no longer rely on the United States for its security,” Macron said in a foreign policy speech at what he called a “crisis moment” for European politics and global multilateralism. “It is up to us to guarantee European security.”

Macron vowed to put forward new proposals in the coming months for the EU to boost defense cooperation, as well as talks with Russia on their security relationship, an issue of concern for countries on Europe’s eastern edge.

To shed more light on the issue, an interview was done with Bangkok- based geopolitical researcher Anthony Cartalucci.

Here is the full text of the interview with him:

How do you assess recent remarks of the French President about the necessity of EU security independence from the US?

The notion of EU military independence from the US certainly sounds appealing, most especially to the public whom this rhetoric is most likely meant for. However, European military dependence stems from financial and geopolitical dependence on Washington and Wall Street and is thus very unlikely to be seriously pursued until this fundamental dependency is first addressed.

Because of the unpopularity of US President Trump among certain constituencies both in the US and in Europe, we’ll probably see a lot of empty rhetoric promising to decouple from Washington – just like promises are made to end wars by US and European politicians that go unfulfilled. It’s always tempting to invest hope in such appealing messages, but it is recommended that patience and skepticism be employed instead.

After Trump took office in US he intensified pressure on Europeans to burden more share of NATO costs. Since then the Europeans have made efforts to form a European Army. It seems after the recent remarks of President Macron the formation of the European Army will become more serious. What do you think of this?

It’s difficult to take anything President Macron says seriously. He says this while the French military continues foreign military operations across Africa and the Middle East – including in Syria and Iraq – paying into US foreign policy objectives. The same can be said about the rest of Europe. While the notion of Europe decoupling from America’s destructive foreign policies sounds appealing, it will take tangible actions on Europe as part to convince the public that such a fundamental change is actually possible. We can’t expect for it to happen overnight, but incremental steps being taken to pivot Europe away from Washington’s foreign policy objectives would be promising start. I just don’t see those steps taking place yet.

Is Europe basically able to be militarily independent from the US? If yes, what will be the fate of NATO?

Europe is more than capable of defending itself without the US, without NATO, and even without a united European army. France, for example, possesses nuclear weapons which would deter military incursions into its territory by any aggressor real or imagined. The real question is, can Europe pursue foreign wars of military aggression without the US, and the answer to that question is no.

The European people would be better off with the former arrangement, but the politicians of Europe and the corporate-financier interests they represent prefer the latter. I suspect until global economics shift toward a more multipolar arrangement, and ties between the EU and the rest of Eurasia strengthen, this dependence on the US both militarily and in terms of determining foreign policy will persist.

Some analysts have interpreted Macron’s remarks as a New Western Order. Will the West enter a new era with a new order independent from the US?

It is entirely possible that Europe can free its economy and foreign policy from US control, but not through any sort of “New Western Order,” but rather by aligning itself within a global multipolar order in which it finds a proportional and constructive role to play alongside nations like Russia, China, Iran, India, and ASEAN states, rather than attempt to create a New Western Order predicated on presiding over the world, simply minus America.

President Macron has emphasized on the necessity of Europe security partnership with Russia. How do you assess this?

Actions always speak louder than words. While France signals this seemingly conciliatory stance, its military forces are still aiding and abetting US efforts to undermine Russia’s security operations in Syria. Of course, there is no graceful way to transition from where France, or Europe as a whole stands today to a tomorrow where Europe plays a more constructive and responsible role in global geopolitics free of Washington’s influence, but I would warn observers to exercise maximum skepticism regarding French or European partnerships and proposed future policies until tangible changes occur first in their existing policies.